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Insane Clown Posse and Christianity

If you have followed “Christian” news the last few days then you might have heard that a rap group called the Insane Clown Posse came out as Christians.  In fact they said they have been Christians for the entirety of their career.

Now this came as a shock to me, as it does others.  ICP is not known for family friendly lyrics (and that might be the understatement of the year).  Their  songs promote promiscuity, murder, violence, and if you had to put out a radio version of their songs then you probably would not have much left to listen to.

When asked why they hid their faith the response was they had to speak the language of their target group and gain their credibility before they could tell them the truth about themselves (although I think 20 years might have been a little long).

Although this is truly an extreme case, I think this is the type of mindset I have seen from other Christians.  The mindset that we have to participate in sin in order to reach “sinners.”  Here are the problems that I have with this approach:

1. It is dishonest.  To participate in sin and purposely mask your relationship with Christ in order to reach others comes off as dishonest.  It feels as if you are lying to people. When you finally “reveal” yourself as a Christian then your credibility is shot because you have lied to these people you wanted to influence!

2. It violates the “faithful witness” aspect of Christians and the church.  The church (and individuals in the church) is called to be a faithful witness to God’s Kingdom on this earth.  We are required to show the world what it could be like if they would allow God to reign over them.  When we become like the world, then we are not the influence we should be.

3. It is a misunderstanding of Scripture.  I have heard well-meaning Christians attempt to defend their participation by using arguments like “Jesus ate with sinners” or “Paul became all things to all men”.  Both of those arguments are true, but there is a distinction between interacting with sinners and participating in sin.  Jesus never participated in sin.

Church lets reach out to all people with the gospel.  Let’s build bridges with groups we normally do not.  But at the same time let’s not be dishonest and sinful in how we interact.  Let them see the beauty of the Christian faith in us.  May we never hide the glory of Christ.

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17 Comments

  1. Great comments on an “Insane” mentality. I’ve had kids try to justify being frat boys based on Jesus “hanging out” with sinners, but they all seem to miss the fact that Jesus (with sinners) was very vocal, no matter where He was, about sin. Like you said, when He interacted, He didn’t participate. I’ve heard someone quote Willie Franklin as saying something like this in response to kids who try to justify going to bars and parties: “If you don’t mind me tagging along and you wouldn’t be embarrassed if I stood up and preached to whoever is there, then I guess it’s okay for you to be there.” (If they didn’t participate and Willie could preach Jesus) How many kids would honestly go for that? Their honest answer to Willie’s request would reveal a lot. Great article about a very sad mentality (ICP’s mindset). Keep up the good work!

  2. Wesley

    October 13, 2010 at 12:44 pm

    Thanks for reading and commenting. I don’t want to judge the hearts of individuals, but at times it appears people want to do something and so they seek justification. Jesus had the clear intent of being the physician to heal the broken lives of these individuals. We need people with that mindset. Sadly today I just see people who want an excuse to enjoy sin.

  3. I feel the same way. I don’t want to judge peoples intentions either, but it’s very disturbing to see people justifying something that is not Biblical or is sin because they have already made up their mind that’s what they want to do, or they “rethink” their position on something because their children are doing something they shouldn’t be doing, or they’ve married someone they had no right to marry. If any of us approach morality with the idea that we have to run it through the “me” filter first and then put a spin on some Bible teaching, then it becomes clear who the “god” is in their lives. It shouldn’t be, “God said it. I believe it. That settles it.” It should be, “God said it. That settles it.” That quote is not original with me, btw. =)

  4. I must admit that I have heard some of the songs of ICP. If they are true new testament christians then that is some really awesome news. However, the people that followed them and their ways, commonly called Juggalos, believe in the madness taught to them by the group. There are huge events where this groups followers gather and party among the lesser of the events that take place. Then when the group springs this claim on their fans, I believe that the fans will reject them and rebell harder continuing to look for another devilish group to lead thier “insane” beliefs.

  5. In other words, good for the members of the group but along the way they have created and condoned violent factions of teens who look and the absolutely immoral as an acceptable way of life.

  6. I was a follower of ICP and everthing they belived in. I owned every cd, dvd, movie, tee shirt,ect. I went to every local concert, even one in Kansas City. I was what they call “hard core”. I knew very little about the Bible, just what I wanted to know. I became a christain when I was 6 years old. I was a “bottle fed” christain till I was 27. I can tell you from experience ICP is VERY different from anything out there. They made me feel like I belonged somewhere.
    All my life I was looking for something to make me feel normal, and they did just that. I forgot about me, I forgot about my family, and I forgot about Christ.I had a NEW family. I became numb to a lot of things, especially my knowedge of the Holy Spirt.
    I got mixed up with drugs and other stuff I shouldn’t have.
    I still struggle with myself to not lisson to them. Some of their songs just fit into my life. It is an on going battle that will be mine till I die.
    I know Christ will see me through! That is my only hope! I hold on to Him, desperately!
    I belive that ICP has left a scar in my life that will never heal. But I also belive that Jesus Christ left a bigger one when he layed down His life for me! I will forever praise Your name! Thank you for not letting me go!

  7. Wesley

    October 22, 2010 at 11:58 am

    Mary thank you for sharing your story with us all. I’m glad you see the power of Christ. I hope that you will continue to use this site as a tool for growing in your relationship with Him.

  8. Hi,
    This is great you wrought a great big argument and you are not getting it you have eyes and you can not see.
    This is the end days hare are evil spirits the devel dose exsiest this mind set that you should promote only holsom family content well this is the end time the signs are every ware I tell you this for it is my place to.The first step is to exnlage you are a siner and repent and ask for help well icp screams help me loud and thay mean it. And the truth not taking from but mistakes and all and a way to ide what we all have allow this laderday sadum to rule no praying in school. You and I should always have his will not our way of life or thinking. Prase for honest people to help sofen or path are you not a siner pinking up you cross and flowing him?

  9. HEAR ME OUT ON THIS ONE AND PUT SOME DEEP THOUGHT INTO WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN BELOW

    Each Joker’s Card is a prophet of the Dark Carnival. Each would encourage listeners to look upon their own true reflections. It shows them something wicked about themselves, and gives them the chance to change before time is up.

    Revealed as of January 1, 1992

    The 1st Joker’s Card

    Carnival of Carnage:

    Warns of the coming of the end of time, and the need to make your soul right.

    Revealed as of March 8, 1994

    The 2nd Joker’s Card

    The Ringmaster:

    Promotes gang harmony, and features claws that represent rival gang signs of forks up and forks down. In other words, all kinds can have clown love.

    Revealed as of October 10, 1995

    The 3rd Joker’s Card

    The Riddle Box:

    Represents the vision many see when they die. When you turn the crank, what comes out determines if you go to Heaven or Hell.

    Revealed as of June 24, 1997

    The 4th Joker’s Card

    The Great Milenko:

    The master of illusion. Milenko has the ability to cast aside people’s self delusions, so they can see what they truly are. For most, this is a hideous, horrible reflection of their evil souls.

    Revealed as of May 25, 1999

    The 5th Joker’s Card

    The Amazing Jeckel Brothers:

    The Amazing Jeckel Brothers are Jake and Jack Jeckel. Jake is good, and cares for the well-being of people, while Jack is sinister and evil. When you die these two spirits juggle your sins. For each sin you committed in your life, a ball is added to their juggling act, making it harder for them to perform. If they drop a ball you go to Hell, if not, you will enter into Shangri-La. To make matters worse, Jack is trying to mess Jake up, just for the fun of it.

    The Wraith: Shangri-La:

    The 6th Joker’s Card (part #1)

    Revealed as of November 5, 2002

    The Wraith exists in shadow and earth, Heaven and Hell, life and death. He is the final vision that we must all face upon our death, for he is the Grim Reaper; the one who carries us to our final destination in the afterlife. Shangri-La is heaven, for those who lived righteous lives, be them rich or poor, successful or not. Those who go to Shangri-La are the people who followed their heart. Juggalettes/Juggalos are all destined to go to Shangri-La.

    The Wraith: Hell’s Pit

    The 6th Joker’s Card (part #2)

    Revealing August 31, 2004

     Rumored to be the most ruthless album ICP has released, intending to be a glimpse of Hell, and all its horrors. Everyone who has been evil, judgmental, and selfish will go to Hell’s Pit. These messages are pretty much aimed for the rest of the world, not the Juggalettes/Juggalos.

    Ok explain to me how an of this is anti religious and sinful the deeper meanings behind all of icp’s work is religious in its own way once you look past all the chicken huntin and stuff like that they have messages like help other people don’t judge other people look into your soul and be true to yourself and ones inner turmoil of good and evil and that if you live your life true to not judging people and helping out other people and being a good person then your soul will go to shangri-la(aka heaven) and if your racist selfish horrible person judging people and doing wrong then your soul is doomed to hells pit

  10. Christan-ninja

    April 23, 2012 at 3:15 am

    Well, another day another debate.
    I am one of those juggalos that stand in the middle between following christ and being a juggalo.
    First lets get one thing straight and this goes for Mary. Good story, I feel you. But here’s my take on things and I apologize if it sounds harsh. I think we all have a responsibility when it comes to balancing out likes in entertainment. I love icp and Psychopathic records their fresh their different and they do what they want creatively with no remorse. Their music in fact does speak to me in many ways they help me get my frustrations out they have very strong messages and on top of that its fun to be a little immature (throwing faygo at people at concerts is honestly fantastic) don’t knock it till you try it. Back to the point. I also go to church and I’m going back to serve my church in Sunday school like I use to (had to stop got burned out ya know). The responsibility of the listener(s) applies to all who partake in ANY form of entertainment, Whether its movies music or books. Again Mary I am glad you found your way back to Jesus in some way everyone becomes a lost sheep. But, Mary is one of those people who followed their “idols” and not the message. Does that make sense? And it happens everywhere with every artist Marilyn manson, prince, even Justin bieber. Going back to the lost sheep reference I just used which ties into the idol thing: we are not perfect no one is. Preacher pastors nuns followers and yes juggalos are not perfect people. We all fall short to the glory of God. Icp falls short Michael Jackson falls short. But as listeners of entertainment we have responsibilities for our own actions. I still listen to icp and enjoy it very much BUT I do not do what they tell me or follow in the masses. I understand the message they give and agree with majority of it. I never went to church as young kid or teenager but I knew dropping out of school was wrong getting mixed up with certain crowds was trouble and that drugs can be addicting and dangerous. I knew if I fell into those traps it was MY responsibility to accept consequences. When I hear about someone who shoots up a school because they saw it in a movie or a game I don’t blame the industry I blame the person who commited the act. People have a choice and god gave us freewill and I truly believe he gave us freewill to be happy but not to forget about him he wants us to pick him over anything he is a jealous god. Just like a father wants best for his kid when he/she moves out of the nest “just don’t forget what I taught you” comes to mind when I think of freewill in the free world. Again though, we are not perfect we are not Jesus every decision we make won’t be right. Its life and only one can judge. So while we are here… lets do right by the Book the best we can and… pop some faygo! Mcl. God bless! Whoop whoop!

  11. Christan-ninja

    April 23, 2012 at 3:58 am

    Oh forgot one other point:

    Why does icp “conceal” the Christian message? Very easy answer: first off they are music group in a very cut throat slim to none chance to-make-it-big business. Keyword in all that is business. What do business do majority: to make money. True. So would it be appropriate to use god to make money? I think not. In fact they have several songs and choice lyrics about “preachers” and money that they feel strongly against. That’s equivalent of using a charity to make money on the side. Second, unfortunately in this morally misdirected state our country and the world is in… god is not “hot” to sell. Please do not confuse this part with “using” I don’t think icp would attempt to reach out to the shunned if they wore facepaint throwing faygo and singing “Jesus loves the little children”. If what icp is doing NOW ridiculous to the mainstream, then clowns on Noah’s ark with faygo is atrocious idea! Also lets look at mainstream. Would anyone still buy a Britney spears CD if she sang a song called “read the bible one more time”nope! because at some point in time we want to just have fun. God built us to enjoy our lives not destroy it. Icp choices to have fun and hide the message because lets face it the typical standard issue church have become sorry to say, out dated. Why else do hounded these new churches that do not own a building wearing regular clothes. Because they want to reach. I belong to church that takes place an awesome movie theatre and I see a movie after service. I can’t imagine myself getting all dressed up just some guy can tell me I’m going to hell because I listen to this or I do that. I go where I have an understanding of god love and life. And its welcoming to everyone. Icp does just that. The song “we belong” explains just that. No matter where u come from god willing accept you if genuinely feel that love. But that’s behind all that noise and ruckus. Its fun and I get it. We hide because even the mainstream people shun Christians am I right? Its not welcomed in schools anymore, its out of our pledge of allegiance, and people don’t wanna hear about it even it we offer it. Sadly again morally we are lost. So as Christains do”making it look cool” by wearing jeans to church is some what misleading. I love my church but ya know what if u wanna save this world and bring the lost to Jesus… then you gotta get tough! No I’m not saying partay in sin but yes get in there and talk to em even if your throwing faygo or a NASCAR event or playing call of duty online and chat with a player. Property have this false idea that following god means your whole has to change…to extent yes. The things that are not good for your body and soul like drugs random sex envy of others, they destroy you. But wearing facepaint and jumping into crowd with a bottle of faygo in each hand is far from dangerous…depending on where your jumping from! Bottom line: the Christian world has a job to do and to get the word out to juggalos and others is gonna take more than just “being safe” in our own communities and doing local projects.

  12. Wesley

    May 9, 2012 at 10:29 am

    I agree we need to get the gospel out to the world. “Boldness,” which is what God calls us to, requires us to speak plainly about our faith. Our job is not to conceal the message of Christ, but to proclaim it. It is dishonest to conceal your faith for the purpose of teaching others.

    As my post states, we should interact with all people and get in the lives of those who are far from Christ, but that doesn’t mean we participate in their sin or in sin in general. This is the trouble with ICP. Their songs promote sinful behavior, while stating they are following Jesus.

  13. Well if you all dont believe in different ways to enjoy christianty then suck it.

  14. People fear what they do not understand…thankfully God does.

  15. I’d like to state something god has told me regardless if you believe me.
    They will call themselves wicked It’s mentioned in the bible the biggest falsehood god warned daniel about and Gabriel answered.
    The wicked will be on the left hand and the blessed on the right.
    In music you hear them call themselves ether wicked or cursed.
    Then you have those who mention themselves as blessed or sound like martyrs of god asking when will it end.
    I saw satan attack me as a child and watched it change my family you have ether two choices choose the life of sin love yourself when in all reality your killing yourself and you’ll see it on judgment day then you have the best choice repent and fight the temptation with jesus christ by your side.
    But i will say this only once an ear will hear what it is told and since the biggening of my life i was confused on what the ugly thing was that attacked me what i was here for then i started praying to god. And understood more of what he gave me in heaven on earth as it is in heaven though what god says stand those who call themelves wicked are on the left those he knows are blessed on the right.
    Btw satan is an ugly son of a b.
    Real ugly so be carful what you believe because it is falsehoods as well the love of money and sin that takes us to hell.
    So repent.

  16. Personally I’m a atheist and kinda neutral in this but if someone isn’t listening to your message and you want to spread it doesn’t make sense to disguise it? That way the lesson is still getting out there to the masses even if they themselves don’t consciously realized they’re receiving it…just makes logical sense to me I personally always thought “Piggie Pie” was a song about what’s morally right and wrong as it’s describes horrible people getting killed in a a t of which can even be considered justice if somewhat extreme justice either way it takes the listener and tells them what a bad person is so that listener hopefully doesn’t become one…

  17. Pleas email me ant keep me posted

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